Once upon a time, there was a young man who decided to go on a Mormon mission. He was a bright young man who was filled with the spirit of god. However, his mission taught him that the "gospel" of cheese and rice of rattle dee snakes wasn't about god, but was about numbers and vilifying homos. So, after a spiritual journey of self discovery, he figured out that the Mormon church was not what it claimed to be.
However, Mormonism taught him his whole life that "every member a missionary." And that teaching would come back to bite the church right in its stinky ass. Because now his motto is "every ex-member an anti missionary."
His name is Kolobian, and he is here to fuck with the missionaries. Below is the first of a series of chats with the Mormon missionaries on line. (Because of cultural sexism, Kolobian always presents himself as a chick because it's far less threatening to the online missionaries. Obviously these missionaries never learned the chatroom lesson of the late nineties - anyone who says they are a young chick online is lying.)
Agent [Alyssa] is read to assist you.
Alyssa: Hi Suzann!
Alyssa: welcome to mormon.org
Alyssa: how are you?
Me: Hey Alyssa, thanks.
Me: I’m cool
Me: How are you?
Alyssa:
Alyssa: I am great, thanks!
Alyssa: how can I help you?
Me: ok, so one of my friends at work is lds and she talks about it all the time
Me: so she asked me if I wanted the missionaries to come to my house
Me: but I had some questions about it first because I don’t usually let anyone come over
Me: not that I’m shy or anything, I’m not
Me: I just don’t like people at my house
Me: I guess I’m funny like that
Me: :P
Alyssa: no problem! :)
Alyssa: that’s why I’m here!
Alyssa: I would love to help
Me: ok, first question: are there any taboo topics?
Alyssa: are you religious at all Suzann?
Me: nope, not at all
Alyssa: Ok, got it… do you have faith in Christ of god at all?
Me: I don’t believe in any gods. That’s why jane wanted the missionaries to come over. She thinks I’ll be in trouble when I die. Lol
Me: Jane’s my friend from work
Alyssa: haha, ohhh I see
Alyssa: well Suzann, have you ever thought about there being a purpose to this life? Or where we will go after we die?
Me: sure, who hasn’t?
Alyssa: that has definitely been a blessing in my life… to know that I am not just wandering around in this life, but there is purpose. That I lived with god, our heavenly father, before I came to this earth
Alyssa: and I can return back to him after this life
Alyssa: we all can
Me: Yeah, that’s most religions
Me: I mean, even if there is a god that doesn’t mean he can tell you your purpose in life
Me: you can make life whatever you want it to be
Me: right?
Alyssa: well, you’re right… we are all given agency, to choose
Me: wait
Me: I don’t understand
Me: we’re “given” agency?
Me: how can someone be given agency?
Alyssa: yes, we are not forced to do anything in this life… we were given agency, the ability to choose between good and evil, when we came to this earth
Me: well, I mean we’re forced to do some things
Me: like eat & sleep
Me: if we don’t we’ll die
Me: but I don’t see how not being forced to do something is a gift
Alyssa: well, yes of course, but to choose between good choices and evil choices
Me: that’s like me saying because I haven’t stolen your car I’ve given it to you as a gift
Alyssa: a gift?
Me: yeah, I mean you’re saying that agency is a gift because we’re not forced to do anything
Me: that doesn’t really make sense. It’s like saying because I haven’t stolen something from you I’ve given it to you as a gift
Alyssa: I didn’t say it’s a gift, it is part of this time on earth… we believe that our time on earth is a “test”, in a sense… we are here to learn and grow from our own experiences and trials
Me: you said “we are all given agency, to choose”
Alyssa: but, we are given the knowledge that we can return back to our loving Heavenly Father
Alyssa: what do you think about that Suzann?
Me: um, if all we’re trying to do is get back to where we were, why did we leave in the first place?
Me: why didn’t we just stay?
Alyssa: because it was part of God
Alyssa: ‘s plan for us
Alyssa: to progress
Alyssa: to learn
Me: so it was god’s plan that we leave him and live on earth just so we can go back where we were before? There has to be more to it than that.
Alyssa: yes, the time here on earth is something that we couldn’t get anywhere else… we are mortal… we have a body… we are tempted and tried
Alyssa: with these things comes experiences and knowledge gained
Me: experience and knowledge to do what?
Alyssa: can I send you a link on God’s plan of happiness for us Suzann?
Alyssa: it will explain it clearly
Me: sure
Alyssa: mormon.org/plan-of-happiness
Alyssa: let me know what you think
Me: k, checking it now
Me: you god has a body?
Me: ok wait
Me: I’ve always wanted to ask someone this: what was the point of jesus being nailed to a cross?
Me: that never made sense to me
Alyssa: because that is how the men at that time killed him
Me: ok, so why does everybody make such a big deal about it?
Alyssa: because that is how he died
Alyssa: after he suffered the Atonement
Me: ok, your website says that jesus says, “I have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer”
Me: who exactly was going to make us suffer?
Alyssa: Because Christ atoned for all of us, we can all have the chance to return back to our Heavenly Father… through repentance, we can be forgiven of our sins
Alyssa: to help us make it back to God after this life
Me: why couldn’t god just forgive us? He’s god, right?
Alyssa: because it is part of the plan for us… wouldn’t life just be so simple if we could just do everything we wanted and then just repent and return back to god?
Me: I would rather take responsibility for my own actions rather than have someone else do it for me. How can you grow that way?
Me: what if someone else always paid your bills?
Alyssa: Suzann, can I share a scripture with you that talks about the happiness we can have?
Me: does it answer my questions?
Alyssa: it talks about the joy we can receive when keeping God’s commandments
Me: that seems so backwards, though
Me: shouldn’t you do good things just to do them, not because you were told to?
Me: or because you can get a reward?
Alyssa: the reward is eternal life with our father in heaven
Me: if we’re here as a test then why are there any commandments at all? That’s like cheating
Me: but you said we already lived with our father in heaven before we came here
Alyssa: we did… and we can return back to him after this life
Alyssa: death isn’t the end
Alyssa: we can be with our families again
Alyssa: with our loved ones
Me: but we were already together before. So why’d we leave if all we’re going to do is go back to where we already were?
Me: you see why I’m confused?
Me: it just sounds really mundane. Nobody goes to college just to move back in with their parents when they graduate
Me: you go out, get a career and do better than your parents did
Me: heaven must be really crowded. Lol
Me: sorry, I’m not trying to be rude
Me: it’s just kinda funny
Alyssa: Suzann, the only way we can know if anything is true is by learning
Alyssa: and asking for ourselves what is true
Alyssa: we don’t want anyone to take our word for it :)
Me: right, but the person making the claim bears the burden of proof. That’s the only way to keep things honest
Me: otherwise I could claim that you owe me 50 bucks
Alyssa: I see… so you believe everything has to have proof?
Me: of course. If a claim isn’t back by evidence it must necessarily be dismissed until proven. That’s basic logic
Me: the default position
Alyssa: so, let’s say that God works by faith, believing in things that can’t be seen or proved
Me: then he wouldn’t have given us commandments
Me: if he wants to remain unseen
Alyssa: yeah, but doesn’t believing that God is real require faith?
Me: I don’t believe anything. If I believe in your god I have to believe in zeus, and mithra, and allah
Me: and every other god
Me: how can you cherry pick one and give it special consideration?
Alyssa: we believe there is one God
Me: don’t you think it should be a god’s job to give us evidence of its existence?
Alyssa: our Heavenly Father
Alyssa: no, because then what would be the purpose of being on this earth as a test? Everyone would believe in Him
Alyssa: there would be no faith required
Me: right, but we’ve shown that there is no point to being here because the only purpose is to get back to where we already were
Me: why should logic & reason be grounds for expulsion from heaven?
Me: faith isn’t honest
Alyssa: Suzann, let me ask you this… would you be interested in learning for yourself if this is all true or not? Through meeting with missionaries? It seems like you have a ton of questions… but, the only way to really find out what is true is by testing it out
Me: I’ve love to test it out
Me: how?
Me: what’s the evidence?
Alyssa: I would love for you to meet with missionaries… they are like guides… they can help teach you more, but even better, show how it can be applied to your life
Me: well that’s why I came here in the first place. Because I have questions about that before I let them into my home
Alyssa: well, to what point will you feel like you have all of your questions answered? To allow missionaries into your home?
Me: well I had a few questions, maybe 5 tops about the missionaries. It shouldn’t take long
Me: is that ok?
Alyssa: sure! :)
Me: ok
Me: how many lessons are there? Are they wrote scripts? Do they have themes?
Me: can I know what they’re going to talk about before they come so I can study other sources besides theirs?
Alyssa: there isn’t an exact amount… it’s just enough until the person being taught fully understands
Alyssa: there are no scripts
Alyssa: but yes, there are “subjects” that are taught, such as baptism, Jesus Christ, the commandments, etc.
Alyssa: you are welcome to ask them what you will be taught the next time
Me: what’s the first lesson about?
Alyssa: well, it depends on the pesron
Alyssa: person*
Alyssa: for you Suzann, with your religious faith, I would assume you guys would talk about God and Jesus Christ
Alyssa: but it all depends on what the missionaries feel
Me: you mean my lack of religious faith, lol
Me: I am not a theist
Alyssa: Yes :)
Alyssa: they would help you understand more
Me: yeah, well what kind of evidence will they bring with them? Or will do what the Christians do and say they read the bible and prayed about it and got a “spiritual witness” or something like that
Me: because subjective experiences don’t count in my book. I think it’s dishonest
Alyssa: well, what type of evidence would you need?
Me: I would expect a being as powerful as a god would have to be to know my mind perfectly and make itself known to me in such a ways that I wouldn’t be able to mistake it for anything else. And it would have to do it without me first asking for it because once you’ve asked for something you have no way of knowing that it’s not all in your head
Me: that’s the problem I have with Christians and their prayers
Me: once you pray to a god you’ve already made up your mind that it exists?
Me: then everything that happens from that point on is dishonest
Alyssa: definitely… He does know you… and I can promise you Suzann, if you give it a chance, you will put yourself in the position to find out
Alyssa: in whatever way God wants to make it manifest unto you
Me: well no gods have made themselves known to me yet, but I have an open mind
Alyssa: I’m glad you do :)
Alyssa: would it be ok if I had the missionaries contact you?
Alyssa: they are just like me
Me: I’ve actually really enjoyed our conversation. When can I schedule more time with you? The online format works a lot better for me
Alyssa: unfortunately, I don’t always know when I’m here
Me: oh. Is there a schedule or something I can sign up on?
Alyssa: but the missionaries in your area can come whenever it is convenient for you
Me: I don’t want anyone actually coming to my house. That’s creepy. But I’d be happy to speak with them online
Alyssa: how about this Suzann… there are sister missionaries who can call and teach you more over the phone… when you feel comfortable, you can meet with missionaries in your area
Me: are you saying I can’t meet with missionaries online?
Me: it’s 2011
Me: almost 2012
Alyssa: you can, but we like doing it over the phone… it’s more personal, you know?
Me: science shouldn’t be personal
Me: it should be objective
Alyssa: I will tell you that if you are looking for scientific proof that what we believe is true, then you won’t ever gain a testimony of it’s validity
Me: so I can, then?
Alyssa: it will never make sense to you
Me: well if it doesn’t make sense scientifically then it can’t be true
Alyssa: it is something that can be felt in the soul… in your heart and mind… that is how God communicates to us
Me: there’s no evidence that such a thing as a soul exists. If it did there would be no mental health issues
Me: and my heart pumps blood
Me: it’s all about the brain
Alyssa: Well Suzann, I really hope you got at least something from this conversation! :) I know that God is real, and that He loves us… Jesus Christ is our Savior, and because of His sacrifice, we can return back to God
Alyssa: please continue looking around Mormon.org
Me: wait, you say you ‘KNOW’?
Me: I thought you said you believed?
Me: how can you know if you don’t have evidence?
Alyssa: I know… I have come to know it is true
Alyssa: I don’t just believe it … I know
Me: how?
Alyssa: because God communicates to us through certain experiences and feelings… I can
Alyssa: can’t describe it Suzann
Alyssa: it is something personal for everyone
Me: how can you know for sure, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that those feelings aren’t from your own mind?
Alyssa: because I know that feelings like that aren’t just me making it up… I can’t explain it
Alyssa: it is true
Alyssa: I can’t deny it
Me: that doesn’t make sense
Me: if you can’t explain it then you don’t understand it
Alyssa: Suzann, I wish you could understand, but you want everything proven to you
Me: If you don’t understand it then you can’t know for sure that it’s real
Alyssa: and if just can’t happen
Alyssa: I am sorry
Me: that’s what everybody says
Me: it’s a copout
Alyssa: Well, you can
Me: all religions say the same thing
Alyssa: ‘t know until you tru it for yourself
Alyssa: REALLY try it out for yourself
Me: if you can’t prove it then you can’t know it’s true
Me: if you can’t explain it then you don’t really understand it
Alyssa: can I share a scripture with you?
Alyssa: it talks about faith
Me: and if you don’t really understand it then it doesn’t make sense to give it meaning
Me: sure
Alyssa: ok, great… go to this link and go to the highlighted scriptures
Alyssa: lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/32:27-30?lang=eng#26
Me: k, hold on
Alyssa: let me know when you’re there
Me: it gives me an error because my browser is outdated
Me: can you copy/paste it here?
Alyssa: yes, one second.
Alyssa: (this is where she pastes it. You can look it up if you have a airsickness bag close by)
Alyssa: these are verses from the Book of Mormon… another testament of Jesus Christ that we read with the Bible
Alyssa: these verses talk about how faith is like a tiny seed… if you have even a little desire to believe, and experiement upon it, that faith can start to grow. It will enlighten your understand. Faith isn’t something that can be proven through physical evidence… it is something that happens inside your mind and heart. That is why I can’t explain it to you Suzann
Me: ok, but this is textbook brainwashing. You learn about this in psychology 101. It’s called a positive reinforcement feedback loop. You’re basically gambling on a proposition, then choosing to believe (or pretend) that the proposition is true, and then looking for reasons why it could be true which sets up a confirmation bias. That’s the exact opposite of what science does.
Alyssa: I am sorry Suzann… it doesn’t seem like anything I can teach you will help you understand. I don’t have physical proof or evidence. I hope you continue to keep looking around Mormon.org and asking your friend questions
Me: science looks to disprove a proposition because true things stand on their own
Me: they don’t need faith
Alyssa: have a great night, ok?
Me: so you’re just gonna bounce?
Me: that’s it?
Alyssa: I am glad I got to talk to you!
Alyssa: :)
Me: hold on
Me: never mind, you can go. Anyone who gives up on their faith this easily just shows how little there is to it
Me: I’m gonna tell Jane about this
Alyssa: I am sorry I can’t help more Suzann
Me: It seems like you don’t want to
Me: you’re very one-sided
Alyssa: eventually, everyone is backed up to the wall of faith
Me: not everyone
Me: I don’t have faith in anything
Alyssa: let me ask you this
Alyssa: is there absolutely anything I could say that would help you believe what we believe to be true?
Me: sure
Me: you could explain to me in detail how you “know” for sure that your position is correct, down to the methodology and experience, as subjective as it may be
Me: just walk me through it
Alyssa: I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon
Alyssa: and I prayed
Alyssa: to know if anything was true
Me: that’s not detailed. How did you pray? Who did you pray to?
Alyssa: the feeling that rushed over me is undeniable… and unexplainable
Alyssa: I knelt down, closed my eyes, and truly asked if God was there
Alyssa: if He could hear me
Me: which god?
Alyssa: and if these things were true
Alyssa: to my Heavenly Father
Me: how did you know he was there?
Alyssa: the feeling I felt… it was like a voice in my mind and heart
Me: no, I mean before you prayed
Alyssa: and a feeling like I was being hugged… it was amazing
Alyssa: I didn’t
Alyssa: I was praying to find out
Me: ok, now explain how you prayed
Alyssa: I knelt down and closed my eyes… and just started talking
Alyssa: asking
Me: out loud?
Alyssa: you can do it out loud or not
Alyssa: it doesn’t mater
Me: we’re talking about your prayer
Alyssa: mine was in my mind, some of it was out loud too I think
Me: ok, so it was in your mind
Me: and a little bit out loud?
Me: and were you picturing god in your head?
Me: how did you direct the prayer to god?
Alyssa: I guess, yes… just asking to know if someone was listening
Alyssa:
Alyssa: if He was really there
Me: did you have a specific picture in your mind?
Alyssa: like something you’d seen before?
Alyssa: no, I don’t think so
Alyssa: I guess I was trying to picture Him
Alyssa: Suzann, I know this is the only way you can know for yourself
Alyssa: no one can convince you God is real
Alyssa: and that He loves you
Me: ok, then you say you felt a feeling afterward?
Me: can you describe it?
Alyssa: yes, a flood of peace and warmth came over me… and understanding to my mind and heart
Alyssa: it was a very personal experience
Alyssa: but one I can’t deny
Me: peace and warmth
Me: what kind of understanding?
Me: did you learn something?
Alyssa: an understanding that God is real… that He heard and answered my prayers
Me: and that was after the feeling of peace and warmth?
Alyssa: yes
Me: ok, so just to make sure I understand correctly, do you mind if I try to recount your experience as I understand it?
Alyssa: it wasn’t like He came down Himself and appeared to me
Alyssa: or said, “I am here!” in a booming voice
Alyssa: haha
Alyssa: it was very subtle, but powerful
Me: would it be alright if I try to summarize what you told me?
Me: that’s how my mind works
Alyssa: sure!
Me: I don’t want to make light of your experience
Me: ok
Me: 1. You read the bible and the book of Mormon, which both talk about a very specific god, right?
Alyssa: right
Me: 2. You decided to see if the god these books was talking about actually exists
Alyssa: right
Me: 3. You didn’t want to wait around for this god to make itself known to you so you decided to take matters into your own hands
Alyssa: I guess you could say that, yes
Me: 4. You decided to attempt to communicate telepathically with this god in your mind, and in so doing chose to “believe” or “have faith” that he was somewhere waiting for you to try that
Me: 5. You pictured this god in your mind while you were talking to him
Me: 6. You felt an actual physical sensation of warmth and an emotional feeling of peace, both of which required neuropathic interpretation in your frontal lobe
Me: 7. After you experienced these feelings you “understood” that those feelings were confirmation that the god you were praying to was real
Me: so I just have one question
Me: well, maybe a few questions
Alyssa: yes?
Me: Is it possible, even remotely possible, that this experience was all in your head? I’m not saying it is. I’m just asking you if you think it’s even possible
Alyssa: Sure, but I know it wasn’t. Never before have I felt this in my life. And I don’t think millions of people out there who have come to know these things are true for themselves just made it up in their heads
Me: ok, both the points you just made are basic logical fallacies. That’s not an insult, I’m just letting you know
Me: to the first point…
Me: have you ever prayed to another god and asked if it existed?
Alyssa: Suzann, I am sorry, that is really all I can do
Me: I’m asking have you ever prayed to another god and asked if it existed?
Alyssa: I have come to know that there is only one god
Alyssa: through reading and praying
Alyssa: simple as that
Me: I’ll take that as a no?
Alyssa: and no, I didn’t need to pray to other Gods
Alyssa: I received my answer
Me: because if you’ve never attempted communication with any other gods, of course you would never have felt that in all your life
Me: a unique experience is a unique experience
Alyssa: Suzann, I am sorry, I have to go
Alyssa: I have loved talking to you!
Alyssa: to your second point… there are hundreds of millions of muslims who have read the kuran, prayed to allah, and received supernatural confirmation that “there is no god but allah and Muhammad is his prophet”
Alyssa: I hope you have gotten at least something out of our conversation
Me: so you’re leaving again?
Alyssa: Yes, but I hope you have a great night!
Me: it’s like if you don’t baptize me you don’t want to talk to me
Me: that’s so dishonest
Me: you’re not a salesperson
Me: you’re an adult
Alyssa: I wish I could stay on here longer
Alyssa: but I can’t
Me: you have a nanny?
Alyssa: thanks for coming though!
Alyssa: haha, no
Me: you don’t make your own decisions?
Me: you can stay as long as you want
Alyssa: Have a great night Suzann!
Alyssa: ye!
Alyssa: bye!*
Me: that’s what I thought
The chat session has ended.
Me: your experience is not unique
