A missionary will be with you shortly.
Agent [Jared] is ready to assist you.
Jared: Hello, my name is Jared
Jared: How can I help you?
Me: Hi Jared, I have some questions I hope you can answer
Me: I’ve been investigating the church on and off for a few years now
Me: Yeah, I’m crazy like that :P
Me: first I started going with my ex-boyfriend, then he went on a mission and we lost touch
Me: hold on, my boss is coming. Sorry :(
Me: ok, I’m good
Me: I’ve been thinking about the plan of happiness lately and I feel like I just don’t understand the purpose to life
Me: according to church doctrine, I mean
Me: I just don’t understand the church’s stance on why we’re here on earth
Jared: Hello, sorry about the wait
Me: it’s ok
Jared: So, after your bf left you stopped going to church and learning about it?
Me: no, that’s a longer story. I made friends while I was going and I attended for another year after that. Haven’t been for about 6 months but that’s because I moved and I haven’t even tried learning where the single’s ward is here
Jared: Can we make a deal?
Me: I can’t commit to a deal until I know the terms, lol
Jared: Ok… the terms will be found in me telling you what the deal is.
Me: ok, what’s the deal?
Jared: So, I will answer your questions, gladly, but will you commit to not only finding the singles’ ward, but also attending it.
Me: it’s a deal. I need some good friends in my life anyway
Me: so back to business
Me: why are we here on earth?
Jared: Great! Okay, so…
Jared: We are here on earth to #1 receive a body. #2 to learn and grow, #3 to be happy :)
Me: ok, so 1: elohim has a body on his planet, so why couldn’t we have bodies there? 2: why couldn’t we learn and grow on elohim’s planet? And 3: why couldn’t we be happy on elohim’s planet?
Jared: In order for us to progress we needed to come to this planet.
Jared: I don’t know why we couldn’t do it up there.
Me: but why, specifically? Because the reasons you cited can be accomplished on the other planet
Jared: I can safely assume that it is part of Heavenly Father’s plan for us to come here
Me: ok, so basically the answer to why we’re here is: we don’t know but we have faith that it is part of god’s plan
Jared: No, we do know exactly why we’re here
Jared: I told you why
Jared: Those three reasons I mentioned
Me: but those three reasons could be accomplished on the other planet. My question is specifically why we’re here on “earth”
Jared: What makes you believe that the Lord’s plan could have been accomplished on the “other planet?”
Me: because it meets the same conditions: it is physical, so we could have had bodies there; we were learning and growing there; we were happy there
Jared: Yes, but we came to a wall, per say, and in order to further progress, we needed to come here to receive our bodies. We don’t know that we could have had bodies there. Obviously we couldn’t because we came here to earth.
Jared: Obviously “earths” are important because the Lord has made trillions of them
Me: well, we know for a fact that elohim and his wives have bodies. So there’s no reason we couldn’t also have bodies there, right?
Jared: They are celestialized. There is a large difference
Me: only in material
Me: flesh, bone, and blood vs. superman flesh and bone
Me: but it’s all matter
Jared: They do have bodies of flesh and bone, however they are celestialized. It’s really that simple. We need to just accept that fact.
Me: I can accept that elohim has a celestial body. That’s no problem. But that doesn’t answer why we weren’t able to stay on his planet and get our bodies there
Me: since we’re going back there when we’re done anyway
Jared: What are you hoping to gain by this conversation? I am telling you what the plan is, but you not accepting the facts. We can see that us coming here is part of the process. We needed to experience specific things here on earth, that we wouldn’t have been able to experience in God’s presence.
Me: the glory of god is intelligence. I’m trying to gain understanding. You say we needed to experience specific things here on earth that we wouldn’t have been able to experience in god’s presence. There must be something more than just a body
Me: ‘cause if it was just a body we could have stayed there
Me: and we could’ve gotten a celestial body
Me: which is supposed to be even better than these meatsacks we’re walking around in, lol :)
Jared: What is your question?
Jared: I have answered you and explained.
Jared: We needed to experience specific things here on earth, that we wouldn’t have been able to experience in God’s presence.
Jared: Like grief and pain
Jared: so that we would know what peace and joy was
Me: ok, but we experienced grief and pain during the war in heaven, right?
Me: we weren’t happy about 1/3 of everybody following Lucifer
Me: and we wouldn’t have known to follow elohim’s plan if the spirit hadn’t testified to us that it was right, so we were able to feel peace and joy
Jared: First off, we don’t refer to Heavenly Father as Elohim, so please stop saying it.
Jared: That is his name, yes, but it is sacred
Me: I didn’t mean to offend you
Jared: I know, I am not offened. I just wanted you to be aware. :)
Me: ok, can I shorten it to HF?
Jared: In this context, sure. Or you can just say God.
Me: Right on. So we wouldn’t have known to follow HF’s plan if the spirit hadn’t testified to us that it was right, so we were able to feel peace and joy. So on HF’s planet we had choices between good and evil, and the option to get bodies.
Jared: Julia, I can see that you enjoy knowledge, as do I, but it is very important to not keep thinking about things that we cannot answer here. It brings me peace to know that I will receive answers to the questions that I have.
Me: and we had spirit bodies, which joseph smith said is also matter, just more fine
Me: but if we can’t answer them what’s the point of having prophets? If there are unanswered questions that means they’re not doing their job, right?
Jared: God reveals his PLAN through his prophets. He tells us through them the things that we need to know and do in order to be happy here on earth, become clean, and then return to his presence.
Me: but the plan as currently revealed has a hugh gap in it. It hasn’t been able to answer the MOST BASIC of questions: why are we here on earth? All the reasons you gave earlier could have been, and were accomplished on HF’s planet
Jared: Here’s an analogy
Jared: Growing up in your parents’ home will teach you many things, but it isn’t until you leave home that you can really learn what it means to be on your own. It is in the being on your own that you learn many more things. You can grow leaps and bounds.
Me: but we’re not on our own. That analogy doesn’t work because we have prophets who speak for the lord and tell us what he wants us to do. Your analogy only works if when you leave home one of your brothers follows you around on a walkie talkie to your parents and is constantly telling you what your parents want you to do. How do you grow that way?
Jared: You are impossible.
Me: excuse me?
Me: what a terrible thing to say!
Jared:…to explain things to
Jared: Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing
Me: I’m just saying the analogy doesn’t work because we’re not really on our own
Jared: It makes me search for more ways to best explain truth to you
Me: if we were on our own we would have no prophets and no knowledge of a plan or any commandments
Jared: That is true.
Me: having prophets is absolutely no different than having jesus here
Jared: the Lord uses them to teach us because it is VERY hard to live here… on our own.
Me: there’s no difference between Thomas monson and jesus when Thomas monson is speaking for the lord
Me: and since mormons claim they have a perfect knowledge through the holy ghost that he is a prophet there is no faith involved. It’s no different than being back in the star system kolob
Me: except maybe the sky’s a different color. We don’t know that
Me: the only problem is that for some reason the prophets aren’t revealing incredibly relevant parts of the plan
Jared: The prophets are like a cell phone call home, you can say
Jared: They’re not like your lil’ bro following you around
Me: no, the holy ghost is like a cell phone calling home. The prophets are like brothers following you around speaking for your parents
Jared: What do you want from this chat?
Me: the ever-elusive answer to: why are we really here on this earth?
Jared: Okay, can you summarize what my answer to that has been so far?
Me: 1. To get a body, which we could have gotten back home.
Me: 2. To be faced with good and evil choices, which we were back home
Me: 3. To learn & grow, which we did back home
Me: 4. To be happy, which we were back home
Me: 5. To have experiences (so far undisclosed) that we couldn’t have back home
Me: I think that’s it
Me: are we still connected?
Jared: yeah, we’re still connected
Jared: Numbers 3 and 4, I’ll agree with
Jared: But number 2…
Me: Lucifer’s plan vs. Jehova’s plan?
Jared: Having forgotten our premortal life and having to proceed by faith makes those decisions a whole different ballgame than they would have been back there with full knowledge.
Jared: And it’s that proceeding by faith that helps us grow
Jared: And as stated before, we may not know exactly why, but we don’t believe getting a body was possible back in Heavenly Father’s presence.
Me: but you’ve been told about your pre-mortal life and with the holy ghost there’s no faith required, and joseph smith said that spirit is matter, only more fine & pure so we definitely had bodies back home. We also know that evil can reside in the presence of the lord so that’s not an issue either.
Jared: No, we know that evil cannot reside in the presence of the Lord.
Me: are you sure? Isn’t Lucifer evil?
Jared: Yes, Lucifer is evil but he was cast out.
Me: Check out Job 1:6-12. It’s very clear that Lucifer still holds court with the lord whenever he pleases.
Jared: Well, I’m not sure how else to help you, honestly… I’ve been trying and it doesn’t seem like I have the answers you’re looking for. How much have you prayed about these concerns?
Me: a whole lot, still nothing
Me: and Thomas monson is decidedly quiet, as well
Me: maybe his cell phone is busted. lol. (just kidding)
Jared: Well, let’s think about it.. if you haven’t been going to church, putting forth the effort and proving your faith, do you think that you’re going to get many answers?
Me: that’s placing the cart before the horse. Why should I have to attend a church before I know it’s the right one? I would have to necessarily attend all churches if that were the case
Jared: Because you’re praying about this specific one!
Me: why is the holy ghost discriminating against me just because I’m not going to a single’s ward?
Jared: You need to put forth the effort. Test the Lord in these things. If you want to know that something is true or not you need to just simply live that commandment. Then the holy ghost will testify of the truth of it to you
Me: that’s backwards
Jared: No it’s not, my friend
Me: why don’t I do the same for Islam, then? I should test out Allah?
Me: take a pilgrimage to Mecca?
Me: that’s a double standard
Jared: How is it backwards? Do explain?
Me: Moroni simply says ask god in faith in the name of Christ and the holy ghost will tell you what’s up
Me: he hasn’t
Me: I’ve prayed numerous times, too many to count
Me: still nothing
Me: it’s HF’s silence that got me to start looking deeper into the doctrine
Jared: Ask God in FAITH. Faith without works is dead. In other words if you’re not putting forth the effort to learn; i.e., go to church, be around other saints, read the Book of Mormon, etc. then you are not praying in faith, essentially. Read Alma 32 again. The desire that you have had to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is just the beginning. As you exercise your faith, then that desire will grow and grow. Your roots will grow deeper and deeper
Me: ok, well I’ve read the book of mormon several times, the D&C twice, the pearl of great price at least ten times, the bible 4 times all the way through; I’ve pondered all of it (obviously); I attended church for two years; I was around other members; and still nothing
Me: you’re shifting the burden of proof
Me: if the holy ghost answering my prayer is proof the book of mormon is true, then the holy ghost not answering my prayer is necessarily proof that the book of mormon is not true
Me: to say otherwise would be special pleading
Jared: Have you tried fasting?
Me: of course I’ve tried fasting
Me: I attended for 2 years. That’s like 24 fast & testimony meetings
Me: not that I attended every single one
Me: but yes, I tried my best and after all I could do I still got nothing
Me: did you ever get an answer to your prayers?
Jared: I have gotten answers to my prayers, yes. I do know that Jesus is the Christ. I do know that Heavenly Father is our father. I do know that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are words of God. Yes, Julia, I have received an answer. I honestly do not think about the things that I cannot get an answer to RIGHT NOW. I look at how simple the gospel is and take it for face value.
Me: so HF told you the book of mormon is true?
Jared: Yes he has..I cannot believe that you haven’t felt it
Me: how did you know it was really him? What happened?
Jared: I can’t really explain it. Simply put, it is just a pure peaceful feeling.
Me: so it’s emotional
Me: so you prayed and felt peaceful and took that as a sign?
Jared: I didn’t just take that as a “sign.” I prayed and just knew it was true. The way I can explain it to you is, like when you are learning something in school and all of a sudden you “get it.” The feeling that comes when you “get it.” That’s what I felt.
Jared: Along with that comes an absolute feeling of peace and comfort
Jared: It is a process, learning how to recognize the spirit
Me: ok but insight, peace, and comfort all come from your brain
Me: how can you know for sure, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that it’s not all in your head?
Jared: Because it’s not in my head. It’s something I feel in my bossom
Me: something you “feel” in your bosom is electrical signals interpreted by your brain
Me: and hindus have known about the heart chakra for thousands of years
Me: it’s in the middle of your chest and burns when you quiet your mind
Me: it takes less than a minute. You can try it now
Jared: The only conclusion that I have come to is that you are using your brain way too much in efforts to get answers to things that only can be given to you via the spirit
Me: but you just said the spirit gave you feelings that can only be interpreted by the brain
Jared: You said that, not me
Me: how can you use your brain “too much?”
Me: don’t you see how that sounds?
Jared: Listen Julia. I have enjoyed this conversation, but I am unable to help you. Sorry
Me: ok, will since you weren’t able to actually answer my question you’re broken our deal and I don’t have to attend single’s ward
Jared: That is your choice
Jared: Have a nice weekend.
Me: It’s Elohim’s choice
Me: quiet as he is
Jared: One day you will accept the truth
Me: he must be getting a kick out of this
Me: is that a threat?
Jared: One day you will see
Jared: Truth is truth. Since I know that I know that you will know one day
Me: but you don’t know it
Jared: I do
Me: you only believe that it’s not all in your head
Me: but you can’t prove it
Me: I can prove that it’s all in your head, though
Jared: I cannot scientifically explain anything to you, but I can explain how I feel.
Me: feelings are scientific
Me: it’s called a positive reinforcement feedback loop
Me: you set up a confirmation bias
Me: you were programmed to know what you should feel
Me: and that’s what you felt
Jared: what about everyone else
Jared: Were they programmed
Jared: The 14+million world wide
Me: “everyone else” as in the hundreds of millions of muslims who read the kuran, pray to Allah, and receive a testimony that “there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet?”
Me: arguments from popularity are a logical fallacy
Me: and your population is .002% of the world
Jared: Muslims are muslims mainly because they are threatened if they change
Me: so are kolobians
Me: were you born in the church?
Jared: that doesn’t matter
Me: I’ll take that as a yes?
Me: where in the world did you find the courage to believe EXACTLY what your parents told you to?
Me: how old were you when you bore your first testimony?
Me: in primary, right?
Jared: Julia, you don’t know me. You don’t know my family life.
Me: that’s called brainwashing
Me: ok, then answer me this:
Me: did you ever “bear your testimony” before you received your so-called witness from the spirit?
Jared: I have to go, sorry.
The chat session has ended.